Oftentimes, almost always, both Atheists (who deny the validity of believing in any Divine-Creator) & Anti-Theists (who are blatantly against even believing in the existence of any Divine-Creator) respectively, place their claims that the existence of any Divine-Creator is non-sense, or silly at best, because they claim that no religion can empirically prove the existence of any Divine-Creator.
Well, I have such proof of the existence of a Divine-Creator, directly from the speech of the Divine-Creator, it’s in the Qur’an itself. Allah clearly states in the Qur’an, concerning the metal Iron: “We have descended Iron, within it contains great durability, as well as benefits for Humans.” (Chpt. 57, V. 25). Now, for those who are scientifically inclined and/or educated in the field of Science, you would know that there have been numerous studies which have proven the fact that tons of amounts of Iron deposits, in the forms of meteors, meteorites, meteoroids, asteroids, etc. have descended to the Earth, during various points in the history of the Earth itself. The most popular scientific opinion concerning the origin of Iron coming to the Earth is via meteorite showers that pummeled the Earth’s surface, before it became solidified, and thus became part of the Earth’s core, as well as part of the Earth’s crust.
Now, for those who deny the legitimacy of the existence of Allah, the Creator of the Universe and/or the Qur’an as a factual book of revelation, I ask you the following question: How is it possible for someone like the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him), who was well-known in his society for not receiving a formal education, and for being completely illiterate (who is also mentioned directly in the Qur’an as being illiterate [Chpt. 7, Vs. 157 & 158]), going to have such sophisticated knowledge about Iron & how it came to the Earth originally?
The answer is right in front of your faces, he was directly inspired by Allah, through the revelation of the Qur’an, and was given knowledge about this particular event of Iron descending to the Earth, 14 centuries before any other Human being ever discovered the origins of Iron via scientific analysis & research. Even though Allah does not go into detail as to exactly how this event took place, the fact that Allah does in fact mention it at all is very significant, especially when it comes to debunking the erroneous belief that no Divine-Creator exists. Now, I’m not trying to convince anyone who is an Atheist or Anti-Theist to just give up their respective beliefs (by the way believing that there is no Divine-Creator is a belief in and of itself) just on my account, that would be a decision which you as an individual would have to make consciously on your own.
However, I am most definitely here to tell you, as a Muslim, as an intelligent Human being, that not only is denial of the existence of the one who created you a personal offense to Him, but it’s just down-right dumb!!! How do you think you got here, just by an accident?!!! Do you really think that everything in the Universe, with all of its wonderful intricacies & complex orderly systems just got here, with no one to bring it into being and to ensure its maintenance?!!!
I’m simply imploring you (those who may be reading this who may in fact be Atheists or Anti-Theists) to use the intellect that Allah, the Creator of the Universe has given you!!! If you are still willing to be an Atheist and/or Anti-Theist, after this simple proof has been presented, in this modest blog post, well then I guess Rick James was absolutely right when he said, “Cocaine is a hell of a drug!!!”.
Gareth Bryant/2012
Gareth Bryant 
That’s like saying the proof of god is in the bible…you got it…silly. Show us something we can measure, quantify, detect, as we do in science, or just admit this is another fairy tale. You cannot use a book we dismiss as false to prove the existence of your false god. Doesn’t work that way to rational minds. Simply doesn’t. Get back to us when you have REAL proof.
I’ve already given you enough proof of what you’ve already asked for. You’re either wrapped up in your own arrogance, didn’t read what I’ve already mentioned about Iron, or both. By the way, thanks for replying. I need the traffic to my blog anyway. 🙂
Gareth, you’re projecting.
Yeah, that’s kind of the point. 🙂
And I know you will moderate out my comment…I fully expect that. Still, I said it.
Your book also says cattle were delivered to the earth in the same way. Are you saying that cows come from meteors too? I would hope not. They would be beyond hamburger by the time they landed.
The fact that Mohammed Named the 57th chapter of the book “Iron” is a coincidence. You are asking people to believe your books fantastic claims of magic and powers divine based on a single coincidence!
Read Moby Dick, it also has Iron in the title of the 57th chapter.
BOW DOWN TO THE GREAT AND AWESOME HEMINGWAY (peace be up him).
There is nowhere in the Qur’an that says that Cattle descended upon the Earth. You’re obviously a person who has no true knowledge of the Arabic-Language, and subsequently has no knowledge of the Qur’an itself either. In fact, I can tell that you’ve never even read the Qur’an, because the Qur’an is in Arabic, while you’ve probably read an English translation (or a translation of any other language that you may speak) of the Qur’an at best.
The same old islamic apologists, when the mistakes are inconvenient you claim you need to read it in the arabic version. The quran however says the quran is clear and is easily understood and yet there are interpretations of it everywhere. The Quran disproves itself. If you believe this fairy story then you believe the flood. This global flood that 18 million species of animal fit on an ark. Animals from around the world including polar bears going to the middle east fitted on an ark. Those giant earth worms all wriggled back from the middle east. The fresh fish all died due to the salty seas. The stone henge people who never noticed a flood and didn’t get their feet wet. This is the perfect quran? There are so many contradictions in it. What was man made from? Who was the first muslim? Is alcohol drinking ok, is it ok to not believe in this fairy story? All contradicted. Man created from either, mud, clay, nothing, water,clot. Take your pick the quran can’t work it out. Harry Potter is a better book.
Now referring to this comment of yours, here’s the following response:
1. There’s no way that anyone, regardless to whether they’re even Muslim or not, can truly understand the Qur’an, unless it’s within the context of the Arabic-Language, because the Qur’an was revealed in a linguistic context & preserved literarily, before the advent of modern/evolutionary science itself.
2. The flood happened, just because Allah says so. Now, how it happened, whether the entire planet was submerged under water, or just one part of it, or whether animals were brought & as to how many were brought upon the ark or not, doesn’t really matter, because if it did matter, then Allah would’ve certainly mentioned so.
3. You mentioned “contradictions” which don’t even exists, for example:
1. In regards to who was the first Muslim-
Of course Adam (Peace be upon him), the first Human being, was the first Muslim, by virtue of the fact that he was a Prophet & all Prophets are automatically Muslims (Peace be upon them all-together).(Stories of the Prophets)
2. In regards to what Human beings were created from-
I see no contradiction, when Allah states that He created Human beings from different parts of the Earth, or from various substances, (like mud, clay, dust, dirt, etc.) because, at the end of the day, all of these substances respectively, are terrestrial substances in nature anyway.(Stories of the Prophets)
3. In regards to Human beings being created from “nothing”-
Allah never says that Humans were created from nothing…point-blank.
4. In regards to Humans being created by “water”-
Allah never says that Humans were created from water, He says that Humans were created from semen/seminal-fluids. And, there are many places in the Qur’an where Allah states this. The word in Arabic for “water” is the word “Ma'” but, in the context of the Qur’an, the word “Ma'” is mentioned in at least four different ways, which don’t at all mean water, as in the water which we drink or bathe with.
5. In regards to Humans being created from “clots”-
Allah never says that Humans were created from clots, because the word which is used to describe what Humans were created from is “`Alaq”, which means leechy-like substances. And, also, it means things which cling to the womb. Now, the only natural, normal things which cling to the womb (in this case the vaginal-wall of the Human female) are fallopian-eggs. And, this is what Allah was telling us that we are created from.
Alla of these “contradictions” which you’ve mentioned are not textual-contradictions. Unfortunately, rather, they’re linguistic/scientific contradictions, as a direct result of people, who are either very ignorant of classic Islamic text, or are purposefully deceitful, mistranslating the Qur’an.
Moby Dick was written by Herman Melville. fyi
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Its like you read my mind! You seem to know so much about this, like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you can do with a few pics to drive the message home a little bit, but instead of that, this is magnificent blog. A fantastic read. I will certainly be back.
@ Gareth: Great presentation. Be careful to verify if the revelation of the Qur-an was 14 centuries before the discovery of the source of iron, rather than 1400 years before today.
@ Kelly Rae Sweeney: I don’t think Gareth is trying to say that the proof of Allah (a/k/a God) is the Qur-an. It read to me more like an example of one particular type of proof of Allah (i.e. scientific), namely that the Qur-an presents a scientific fact that there was no way of observing at the time, that was later confirmed. Whether you agree or not (it would be hard to see how), I think you can at least see that it is an objective, empirical argument.
@ Anubis Drake: Please show where, in any translation, the Qur-an says that Allah sent cows to the earth, in the same way that He Says He Sent iron to the earth. And as for the chapter of the Qur-an being named Iron, this is not being presented by Gareth as a part of his argument. If you don’t show yourself to read carefully, no one is going to take you seriously, which means that you will stand as a proof against your own arguments.
Although Gareth explores one example of knowledge in the Qur’an priot to its general discovery by the rest of mankind, the faith by no means rests on this one discovery, miracle or – as some call it – ‘coincidence’.
The truth is the Qur’an is filled with examples of knowledge that couldn’t have come to mankind except from the one true Lord of the universe, from the detailed process of birth, knowledge of space and the planets and who knows what else we have yet to discover before we can understand all that is predicted or mentioned in the Qur’an. You really can’t dismiss a book as a fabrication when it holds the truths of existence long before modern-day scientists came upon such knowledge.
And some of this knowledge is also is other orthodox Biblical religious texts because has continued to get the message to mankind and it’s constantly ignored. Humans always get ahead of themselves and forget about God but time and time again, they do so thier own detriment it would seem.
It is amazing how all these “miracles” of the quran come after the science. One word suddenly means a biology book created from hard earned science. This arrogant religion claims them by doing word gymnastics to make them fit. As PZ Myers found out, the meaning of verses changes to what ever the science of the day is. Show us something now ahead of science? No, the deceit of saudi apologists trying to make a backward book fit the modern world.
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You enjoy your life by imposing your belief on the non-believer, who are happy in not believing in any deity…. you sir have issues. Do you even know the word, respect?
I’ve never imposed my religious beliefs upon anyone. No one put a gun to anyone’s head, to read anything that I’ve posted. You’ve taken it upon yourself, exclusively based upon your own volition, to read my blogpost. Furthermore, you must either feel guilty about the truth being so obvious, and yet being too ashamed or afraid, for whatever reason, to accept it, or are just too damn arrogant to accept the truth when it’s in-your-face, crystal-clear.
This quran hates non believers, There are numerous verses not trusting and badly treating non believers. It is not just the quran, there are other islamic books saying to treat the non believer very badly. What is the penalty for leaving this religion of peace? What happened to free speech when you read what mohammad did to a girl? Written down but violence when you point it out.
1. Point out these verse which you claim that Allah encourages the Muslims to hate “Non-Believers”.
2. What do you mean by “what Muhammad did to a ‘girl'”? Oh…you’re one of those who love to go the slanderous false accusation of child-molestation route, aren’t ya?!!!
Well, let me put this to rest right now:
1. Muhammad (Peace be upon him), like any other Prophet from among the noble Prophets of Allah (Peace be upon them all-together), were protected from committing such sins, as sexual-offenses, for example. And, he was never even accused of a sexual-offense during his own lifetime, in spite of all the other negative accusations against Muhammad (Peace be upon him) while he was alive.(The Sealed Nectar)
2. When Muhammad (Peace be upon him) married our mother, `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her): one, Muhammad was commanded to marry & divorce any & every single woman whom he had ever married or divorced, because marriage, Islamically, is an action of worship, including the fact that Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was a Prophet, Allah would never allow any of His Prophets (Peace be upon them all-together) to fall into a sin, such as sexual-offenses.(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.53, V.3 & 4; The Sealed Nectar)
3. The marriage between Muhammad (Peace be upon him) & `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) was not consummated, until it was confirmed that she had already reached puberty, and until she had reached puberty, she remained in her parent’s home.(al-Bukhari) This is important to note, by virtue of the fact that Islamically, regardless of a person’s age, once they reach puberty, they are Islamically allowed to get married-Islamically, this is allowed, because manhood/womanhood is determined by puberty & not by age, and realistically the ages of puberty are very varied. Also, in Pagan-Arab society, as well as other societies of the time, it was very common to marry women whom were very young. For example, 33-year-old King John, of England, married a 12-year-old Isabella of Angouleme, in 1200, C.E.
Personally I see more evidence for the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His noodley goodness is evident in every pasta package that we see. His greatness is revealed in every store and Walmart across this great nation. When one opens their mouths and bellies they can receive the his pasta goodness and live.
I’m sure that you can see the extreme level of sarcasm. Stating that your interpretation and the reality of god is obvious from the book he supposedly authored is no different than saying that Batman is real because DC comics say so.
Your use of scripture concerning iron only proves that superstitious people believed that iron was put here on earth by god for mankind to use, just like Prometheus’ fire. Of course I’m no expert in ancient Arabic. This is another reason that the idea of a personal creator is ridiculous. A truly omnipotent creator who wished to communicate to mankind would definitely use a language and allow for proper translations into all other languages. Your ideas and remarks are flawed from the very start.
Please try to prove that god exists without using a specific holy book….which we know has suffered numerous changes and retractions. Check out a pretty good book….”Why I’m Not A Muslim” by Ibn Warriq.
I’m sure that you will disagree….but I tried.
Firstly, when it comes to your challenge of proving the existence of a divine creator, I’ll respond this way:
You cannot use the scientific-method to prove the existence of a divine creator, because the scientific-method can only be used to prove the existence of something which exists within the realm of the physical Universe. Now, the creator of the Universe is obviously not a part of the physical Universe that He has created, He’s abstract from it, outside of it. So, you cannot limit the creator of the Universe, by attempting to quantify Him, based upon methods of discovery which can only be applied to things which exists within the physical Universe. That’s not a fair argument. So, by definition, you would have to use some other standard to prove His existence, other than the scientific-method, this is where using revelation comes in.
That sun orbiting the earth and hail coming from the mountains of heaven shows what a BS book this fairy story is.
One thing fairy stories have in them and that is talking animals. Those talking ants making complete sentences shows what this book of a flat earth is man made fairy story. The rain coming from between clouds and that you can walk towards the sunset and GET THERE LOL. The sperm coming from between the ribs and spine is another impressive failure. When facing mecca on a spherical earth your back is to it as well but even that is wrong, facing mecca means you are looking in to space on a curved earth. You should be facing in to the earth. This believes the world wide flood and that people can come from just one person. That is generically wrong again. This book is not written by anybody with knowledge of the world it is plagarised from the bibles and the science books of the time. As PZ Myers found ought with a debate with an islamic, the words in this book of fairy tales changes to suite current hard earned science. It ought to be prosecuted for copyright from the peer reviewed scientists. The islamic lying miracle book of BS.
Allah doesn’t say that sperm comes from in between the spine & ribs. Allah says that Humans were created from semen, which exits from an area in between the spine & the ribs. Now, where is the prostrate gland located? If you can answer that question, then you would understand what Allah is saying. It is a known fact that semen exits from the prostrate gland, and into the urethra & so on. And, obviously, sperm is what’s inside of semen.
The prostate gland makes the fluid that the sperm use to get ejaculated out. The sperm is made in the testicles. Read a medical book instead of the Qur’an once in a while.
I don’t need to read a medical-book to know that what Allah says is true. Sperm is coated by semen/seminal fluids, is it not? Semen exits from the Prostrate-Gland, does it not? It exits from where? In positioned anatomically, directly underneath the Bladder, between the Spinal-Column (more accurately, the Sacrum) & the Floating-Ribs, does it not? Allah mentions this 14 centuries before anyone knew definitively what sperm even was(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.86, V.7)…point made.
If the Qur’an was in a library, it would be classified under fiction. Ha ha.
Now, you’re just being a jerk!!!
Sorry, just making a joke. Excuse my immaturity.
“I don’t need to read a medical-book to know that what Allah says is true”. Right, you just need faith. The verses you mentioned just say “So let man observe from what he was created. He was created from a fluid, ejected, Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.”
Almost everyone in ancient times knew that that the semen that men ejaculated made babies and that it came from the testicles. But guess what, the prostate gland is not between the backbone and the ribs. The rib cage ends well above the prostate gland.
So much for the Qur’an as a medical text book. No where in those verses does it mention sperm cells, and it is so vague in its description of where the fluid comes from that anyone could have guessed that. And it even gets this guess wrong! Wow.
Is not the Sacrum part of the Spinal-Column? Yeah, it is. And, the Coccyx is part of the Sacrum, is it not? Yeah, it is. The Coccyx is directly posterior to the Prostate-Gland, is it not? Yeah, it is. Now, if you look at where the Prostate is positioned, if you observe, you’ll see that the general position of the Prostate does in fact lie in the area of the Human-body, which lies between the lower part of the Spinal-Column (Sacrum/Coccyx) and the Rib-Cage.
Fine, the spinal cord/column goes down to the Coccyx (which is the evolutionary vestigial remnant of the tails our predecessors once had). But what I mentioned was that the prostate gland is not “between” the rib cage and the spinal column. It is clearly below the rib cage but near the spinal column. So the Qur’an is half right at best. All I’m saying is that it is a stretch of words to try to make the Qur’an accurate.
What Mohamma did to a 9 year old girl is unacceptable. Repeat unacceptable. This is not myth it is well written down in arabic text. This is not western propaganda, it is in the writings. Pretending it isn’t and then trying to threaten people not to say anything is even worse. That is exactly what the catholic church has done in pretecting it’s priests.
No one tries to pretend that Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was married to `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her). However, you’re purposely bringing this up to divert the course of discussion, because you obviously have nothing else to stand on, because you have no legitimate argument to disprove the existence of a divine creator. So, of course, now, you’re resulting to dishin’ out slanderous low-blows, in the hopes that I spend my words & time tryin’ to “apologiize” for somehting that was done by a Prophet, in an honorable fashion, in the sight of Allah, under the Islamic guise of the institution of marriage.
That’s all you have to say, “Oh, look what Muhammad did to a nine year old.”. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) didn’t do anything wrong, he worshipped Allah related the Qur’an to his Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all-together), helped the weak & oppressed, gave charity to the poor, encouraged the down-trodden, and so on. I’m not apologizing for anything that Muhammad (Peace be upon him) did, in regards to what he did as a Prophet, and what he did for Islam, the Muslims, and the people of his time. He was a Prophet, and everything that he did religiously (which includes his marital lifestyle) was 100% pure, and correct, based upon divine revelation…period.(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.53, V.3 & 4)
Umm this is just silly. A culture that of course knows about, uses and values iron, saying that god ‘sent it down’, ‘revealed’ it, etc etc is pretty consistent with god ‘sending down’ all kinds of things. Do locusts come from space?
You’re purposely using a silly example, to justify not believing in something which Allah had revealed to someone who came from a people who had no previous knowledge of the origin of Iron.
And of course while the ‘science’ wasn’t known, many cultures were aware of ‘rocks that fell from the sky’ and that they were a good way to get iron.
“Indigenous peoples often prized iron-nickel meteorites as an easy, if limited, source of iron metal. For example, the Inuit used chips of the Cape York meteorite to form cutting edges for tools and spear tips.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite#Meteorites_in_history
Yeah, well…guess what?!!! The Arabs of Pagan-Arabia had no previous knowledge of this fact, previous to the Qur’an being revealed.
If you throw a lot of mud at the wall, some of it will stick. The ancient Greek Democritus said that all matter was made up of tiny indivisible particles called atoms (which in Greek means indivisible) about 2,500 years ago way before modern science confirmed this. Was this information revealed? No. It’s called making a prediction that happens to come true.
There are too many things wrong in the Qur’an to make these vague “revelations” be taken seriously. And why is it that when modern science disagrees with the Qur’an, it’s science that is suddenly wrong, despite overwhelming consensus and evidence, but when science corroborates some vague line in the Qur’an, it “proves” its truthfulness?
It seems to me that Muslims are cherry picking and choosing from science the same way they do from their holy books whenever it justifies their position.
It’s ironic: Your statement, accusing Muslims of, “cherry picking and choosing from science the same way they do from their holy books whenever it justifies their position.”, is exactly what Evolutionists/Darwinists do: For you guys, “The Origin of Species” is your sacred-text, and Darwin is your God/Prophet.
Darwin was no prophet, he was a scientist. We non believers have no sacred text. Everything to us is on the table for criticism and debate. Darwin didn’t get everything right and nether did Einstein. But we don’t remember these figures for what they got wrong, we remember them for what they got right. And both of their scientific theories stand firm. That’s the beauty of science, when something is wrong, someone will point that out and it will be corrected. Science is self-correcting. It is not frozen in dogma as religion is. That is its strength, not its flaw.
Scientific theories are falsifiable. Theists like you assert that your god’s existence is unfalsifiable. Which can only mean that it is backed up by faith and that’s its central weakness. My statement regarding Muslims cherry picking “facts” for their advantage stands ground. To not acknowledge scientific understandings that may contradict your holy books is one of the reasons why the Islamic world went into disarray after the 11th century, which is why large parts of it are still backwards today.
This is exactly my point: You’ve just said, yourself, that, “Scientific theories are falsifiable.”. So, if you know this, why, oh, why, would you invest so much of yourself into a concept that even you, yourself, has just admitted is not flawless? Furthermore, no one denies the validity of Science. However, when Allah says something, we take the word of Allah above the word of anyone or anything else, period…that’s how that goes.
You obviously don’t understand my point. The falsifiability of an argument is a sign of its strength because it shows that it is a rational argument, held up by evidence. Being falsifiable doesn’t mean that it is false, it means that it is not held up by faith, as religion is.
To take something as truth, because it is in a “holy” book, even if tangible scientific evidence contradicts it, is a sign that you are not even willing to be rational. That way of thinking has no place in the realm of science. I invest myself where the scientific evidence points, and it doesn’t not point toward yours or anyone else’s religion.
It is hilarious how Muslims try to twist the vague unscientific references in the Qur’an and try and make them corroborate with modern science (when it is selective to their advantage of course). I’ve had Muslims try this on me over the years and I always enjoy making them look like an ass with how incompetent they are. Well, to be honest, they made themselves look like asses.
Look man, as an atheist and anti-theist, I do respect your right to have your own opinion and to be vocal about it. After all, I hope that you, as I do, respect freedom of speech going both ways. I just can’t wait until the Muslim majority countries practice this.
Over the years I’ve had a few Muslims try to point to some vague references in the Qur’an that when twisted, accurately describe science. But you must be aware, that for skeptics like us, such vague references will never be enough, because all religious books have some truth to them, and they can’t all be correct in their entirety.
On top of that, all religious books are full of scientific and historic inaccuracies, which would of course defeat your objective since your holy book must be perfect. There is no religious text, that accurately describes the universe as science does, because of course no one writing them knew anything about science. You must be aware that the Qur’an contradicts itself many times. How do you reconcile this when the Qur’an is supposed to be absolutely perfect in every way?
If you don’t know what I mean check for yourself in these verses below, in this small sample I have:
Have some passages in the Qur’an been changed?
Yes – 2:106; 16:101
No – 6:34; 6:115; 10:64; 18:27
How many angels spoke to Mary?
One – 19:16-19
More than one – 3:42; 3:45
How long is Allah’s day?
1000 years – 22;47; 32:5
50,000 years – 70:4
Who chooses the devil to be friends with unbelievers?
Allah chooses – 7:27
The disbelievers choose – 7:30
Was the Pharaoh drowned or saved?
Drowned – 17:102-103; 28:40; 43:55
Saved – 10:90-92
Will all Jews and Christians go to hell?
Yes – 3:85; 5:72
No – 2:62; 5:69
Did Mohammad ask for a fee?
Yes – 2:195; 8:41; 9:103; 9:111; 47:38; 57:10
No – 12:104; 36:21; 42:23; 52;40; 68:46
How should Jews and Christians be treated?
With tolerance – 2:109
With war – 9:29
Which came first heaven or Earth?
Heaven – 79:27-30
Earth – 2:29; 41:9-12
Will Allah forgive anything?
Yes, anyone and anything – 4:110; 39:153
No some people and things will never be – 4:48; 4:116; 4:137; 4;168; 9:80; 47;34; 63:3-6
How many angels fought Mohammad?
3000 – 3:124-126
1000 – 8:9-10
Is each person free to believe as he or she wishes?
Yes – 2:256; 18:29; 109:6
No – 3:32; 30:45; 18:29; 3:85; 3:28; 4:89; 4:144; 5:51; 60:1
How long did it take to create the heavens and the Earth?
6 days – 7:54; 10:3; 11;7; 50:38; 57:4
8days – 41:9-12
What was man created from?
Water – 25:54; 24:45
A clot of blood – 96:1-2
Clay – 15:26; 32:7; 38:71
Dust – 30:20; 35:11
Is Allah merciful?
Yes – 1:1-3; 1:163; 2:37; 2:54; 2:128; 2:143; 2:160; 2:173; 2:182; 2:192; 2:218
No – 2:7; 2:17; 4;56; 4:168-9; 5:33; 7:50
Does Allah make distinctions between his messengers?
Yes – 2:253
No – 2:285
Who was the first Muslim?
Abraham/Jacob – 2:132
Moses – 7:143
Mohammad – 39:12
Did one of Noah’s sons die in the flood?
Yes – 11:42-43
No -21: 76; 37:75-77
Does everything on heaven and Earth obey Allah?
Yes – 30:26
No- 2:34
Each & every single verse of that you’ve mentioned from the Qur’an is mistranslated and/or taken completely out of context.
For example:
1. There have in fact been verses of the Qur’an have been abrogated either by other verses in the Qur’an itself, abrogated in terms of the text itself (replaced with other verses) or abrogations of either ordinances & prohibitions in particular verses by other verses, or even by actions of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)…so what?!!! Allah specifically tells us, “Whatever the Messenger gives you, you accept it, and whatever he forbids, refrain from it.”.(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.59, V.7)
2. You’ve mentioned about the amount of Angels who came to Mary (Peace be upon her). Well, there was more than one instance that she was visited by Angels, which is evident in the very verses that you’ve mentioned; so, there ya go.
3. Referring to the divine position of time, the way that Allah measures time cannot be estimated by anyone or anything created. And, Allah has just chosen to use examples of that, in the verses that you’ve mentioned.
4. When you’ve mentioned about the Devil being the friends of the Disbelievers, it’s referring to what Allah decrees & also the decisions which Humans themselves make. So, yeah, in reference to the Devil, Allah does decree people to follow & befriend him, and also, these people make choices, based upon volition, to follow & befriend him, which is mentioned in the verses which you’ve mentioned.
5. Referring to the verses from Chpt. 10, V.90-92, when it comes to verse 92, it’s exclusively referring to the preservation of the body of the Pharaoh, who pursued the Children of Israel, with his army & was drowned.
6. When it comes to the Jews & Christians going to Hell, then, yes…if the Jews & Christians who associate false qualities to Allah, and don’t follow the true teachings of their books, and who don’t accept the guidance that Allah has given to Muhammad (Peace be upon him), yes…they will go to Hell, forever…this is what Allah says, in the Qur’an…so what?!!!
7. The verses that you’ve mentioned when it comes to a “fee”, Muhammad never requested or demanded a “fee”. These verse are explicitly referring to the allowances of the spoils of war…so what?!!!
8. Referring to how the Jews & Christians should be treated are very relative to how they interact with the Muslims. In times of peace or weakness, we’re required to treat Jews & Christians a certain way; however, in times of military-conflict or when the Muslims have authority, we’re required to treat Jews & Christians a certain way…so what?!!!
9. The Heavens definitely came before the Earth, and just the Earth is mentioned in some verses first, as opposed to the Heavens, doesn’t mean that Allah is in error.
10. As far as the forgiveness of Allah, He does say that He forgives all. But, His forgiveness has to be earned. And, if someone dies upon associating false qualities to Allah and/or worshipping other than Him, or is carelessly, shamelessly, rebelliously, disobedient to Him, then, that person doesn’t deserve the forgiveness of Allah.
11. Referring to the groups of Angels who fought with Muhammad (Peace be upon him) & the Muslims, during the battles, against the enemies of Islam, there’s two different instances, where the Angels of Allah has helped the armies of the Muslims…so what?!!!
12. As far as the power of choice goes, yes people definitely have the choice to obey or disobey Allah. But, they don’t have the right to do so, there’s a distinct difference between a choice & a right: Choices are just biased, personal decisions, while rights are things which are divinely sanctioned & justified.
13. As far as the number of days that Allah says that it took to create the Universe, who cares which days He says, the pint is that He says that He did it.
14. Allah never says that He created Humans from water nor (blood) clots…total mistranslation of the text of the Qur’an. And, I know this personally, for a fact, because I’ve studied the Qur’an via the Arabic-Language & I’ve studied the Arabic-Language for over a decade now; Allah does mention how He perpetually creates Humans (as well as living-creatures, such as Avians, Reptiles, Amphibians, Mammals, etc.) from sexual, seminal, fluids (Sperm), and from Fallopian-Eggs/Ovum. And, referring to the other substances that Allah speaks about (such as dust, soil, clay, dirt, etc.), He’s exclusively referring to the initial creation of Adam (Peace be upon him).
15. Allah’s mercy is just like He is: Eternal, unlimited, etc. However, just like His forgiveness, His mercy has conditions, the same conditions which are necessary to receive Allah’s forgiveness are the same conditions required to receive Allah’s mercy.
16. When Allah says that He doesn’t make distinctions & commands us to not make distinctions between His Messengers (those whom were chosen to be recipients of textual-revelation from Allah, as scriptures, books, etc.), He’s making the point that created things (Humans particularly) don’t posses the entitlement to say which of the Messengers (Peace be upon them all-together) are better than the others. However, Allah is divinely entitled to determine that, and He does, really simple.
17. Allah makes it very clear, in the Qur’an, who the first (Human) Muslim is, and he is none other than the Father of Humanity, Adam (Peace be upon him). And, this is based upon two things: 1. The definition of Islam is: Submission to Allah via Tawhid (Islamic-Monotheism), to humble one’s self via obedience, and to free one’s self from Shirk (Association of false-qualities to Allah), as well as those who do so, 2. By virtue of the fact that Allah had commissioned the Human being to be Khulafa’ (custodians) over the Earth, it’s only natural that the first from among Human beings would obey Allah & worship Him properly. So, ergo, Adam (Peace be upon him) was in fact the first Muslim.(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.2, V.30-33)
18. regards to your claim that one of Noah’s sons died in the flood, the verses that you’ve mentioned doesn’t at all refute the fact that one of Noah’s sons did in fact perish in the flood. In fact, they’re referring to the other three sons of Noah, who had survived with Noah, as a result of obeying Allah, then, obeying their father a Prophet & Messenger, by accompanying him upon the ark.
19. When Allah mentions that everything upon the Earth obeys Him, He’s exclusively referring to created things which do not have free-will, the choice to either obey or disobey, freely, based exclusively upon volition. And, when Allah mentions created things which do not obey Him, He’s exclusively referring to created things (like Human beings, etc.) which have free-will.
So, basically, you’ve proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don’t know a damned thing about Islam.
There are too many contradictions that I pointed out for me to reference all here so let me just focus on a few. In number 1, I’m well aware of the abrogations in the Qur’an whereby old commandments are cancelled by newer ones. But what I get from this is that Mohammad was simply just making it up on the fly, or he was probably an epileptic who simply forgot what he previously had said. Even if I am wrong, the notion that major ideas of morality can simply be overwritten by newer commandments shows you that in Islam, in particular, morality is completely dependent on divine will, and could change at any moment. Divine command theory on morality is really sad way to base your ideas of right and wrong.
Now, surah 6:115 says “none can change his words: for He is the one who hears and knows all”. If Mohammad abrogated previous commandments, that would technically qualify as changing words. Either that or your god seems to make up morality of the fly.
For number 17, the Qur’an mentions Adam, but modern history, human archeology and genetics shows there was no original “Adam”. Humans evolved about 100,000 to 250,000 years ago in East Africa. And if you don’t know this you don’t know anything about science. So the Qur’an is wrong there too.
For number 13, you say who cares how many days the Qur’an says it took Allah to allegedly create the Earth? Excuse me? I care. Muslims claim that they have a book that is absolutely in every possible singe way 100 percent completely accurate because it is the verbatim word of god. If ONE THING is wrong in it, that cancels the whole book, because a perfect god can’t make mistakes. Whether it is 6 or 8 days it matters. But what really matters is that the Qur’an fails to mention that that the universe is actually 13.72 billion years old and that our Sun and Earth took waaaay more that mere days to create. The Qur’an merely plagiarizes the old Jewish and Christian myths and so if Judaism and Christianity falls, Islam partly does too. God doesn’t hate fags, he hates facts.
For number 14, I have 3 different English translations of the Qur’an and in verses 25:54; 24:45, they all confirm that Allah makes every animal from water. 24:45 – “And Allah has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs: and some that walk on four…Allah has power over all things [except consistency]”
25:54 – “It is He Who has created man from water”
Are you telling me all the English translations are wrong? Including the the very popular Yusuf Ali version? So tell me what substitute for water is in your Arabic versions?
Now for number 9, about which came first heaven or Earth, surah 41:9-12 clearly states that Allah created Earth first, then turned to the sky and turned smoke into what becomes the heavens. So please tell me what the exact Arabic versions say in verses 41:9-12. And if you are telling me that the English translations are misguided, or that English cannot accurately communicate Allah’s message, then what does it say about a “universal” religion that is only perfect in one language?
And finally that brings me to number 18 about Noah and the flood story, which I can’t believe you actually believe, but anyway. 21:76 clearly states that Allah “delivered him [Noah] and his family from great distress” and 11:42-4 clearly states that one of Noah’s sons who thought he could seek refuge from the flood waters on a mountain was eventually murdered by Allah (since the flood according to the story was an intentional act) as it states “and the son was among those who were drowned.”
The main problem is that Noah’s flood never happened. It is an old Jewish myth that is not corroborated by any credible scientist anywhere. You seem like an intelligent guy, and I have to seriously ask you, if you honestly believe that one man put two of every animal and insect on a boat while a world-wide flood took place? I mean, seriously. That’s right up there with what crazy fundamentalist Christians believe.
To believe the flood literally took place, as did Adam and Eve and the whole garden of Eden myth, opens the Qur’an and Islam up to some intense scientific and historical scrutiny that makes it far less likely to be taken seriously. It’s silly nonsense like this that prevents skeptics like me from taking your faith with a straight face.
But I applaud you for your response, thanks.
1. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was an illiterate Prophet & received no form of religious or secular education, which was well-known about him, during his lifetime, among his people, before he even became a Prophet & he never learned how to read or write; and, this is the main actual proof that there’s no way that he could’ve possibly made anything up from the Qur’an, from his own mind.(Noble Qur’an: Chpt.7, V.157 & 158)
9. There are many instances where Allah purposely mentions things which were created after other things which existed before them, just to make points, or to elaborate the importance of certain things. For example, Allah created a man before a woman; but there is a verse in the Qur’an that the word woman is mentioned the word man. So, what you’re ststing is actually rather baseless.
13. Again, what I’ve already mentioned before, divine-time is different from finite or infinite time. When Allah says 6-days, or 8-days, we really have no idea as to how long it could’ve really taken Allah to creat the Heavens & Earth. And, again, it doesn’t matter, the point is that Allah is the reason why the Universe exists; so, however long Allah chose to create the Universe, then, that’s just what it is.
14. Yes, I’m definitively saying that those translations are wrong, based exclusively upon my studies of the Qur’an, based upon knowledge of the classic commentaries of the Qur’an & the Arabic-Language.
17. Just because modern-science, which is automatically based exclusively upon biased Evolutionary/Darwinian concepts, doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of the existence of Adam, the Father of Humanity (Peace be upon him), doesn’t mean that he never existed. It just simply means that if you’re not willing to recognize & accept the existence of a divine creator, then, of course, you won’t recognize & accept the fact that the ancestor of alll Humans is another Human, Adam (Peace be upon him), and not primates. Also,by the way, you should know this well: There’s only one reason why Evolutionists/Darwinists claim that Human-life began in Africa, because it’s the Evolutionist/Darwinist belief that Evolutionists/Darwinists believe that peoples of African-descent evolved from Primates to Humans first (i.e. that peoples of African-descent are the lowest on the evolutionary-scale, making them inferior to peoples of Asian & European-descent).
18. Yes, I, as a Muslim, believe in the story of the flood, because Allah says that it took place. Now, in regards to how it happened, how many creatures/animals were taken on-board, upon the Ark, whether or not the flood was a world-wide vs. regional flood, it doesn’t really matter-The flood happened, simply because Allah says that it happened, period.
Response to Gareth Above:
1. “Proof”? Sorry that just doesn’t cut it. Even if Mohammad never had any religious education, the old testament myths were widely known in Arabia during his time, and some of Mohammad’s friends and relatives were Christian. If you throw a lot of mud at the wall, some of it is going to stick.
9. All your response shows that that the Qur’an is inconsistent because in the English translations, Mohammad is clearly saying Earth was created first.
13. We know divine time from the Qur’an. Allah’s day is either 1000 years (22;47; 32:5) or 50,000 years (70:4). NEITHER of which are long enough to equal 13.7 human years, which is the actual age of the universe. Science wins again.
14. So only in Arabic is the Qur’an perfect. So much for a “universal” religion. Tell me what the correct translation is and cite references please.
17. ALL people evolved from other primates in Africa, not just black people. I’ve noticed a large number of black people unwilling to except this scientific fact either because some are uneducated, or they fear the association with other primates because of racism. I’ve personally traced my genetic lineage to East Africa, which is the real “Garden of Eden” if you will, the cradle of humanity. The first humans were all African for tens of thousands of years. That should unite us all, and not be a source of anger or shame. I am proud of OUR African roots.
18. If you’re willing to believe something merely because it is in a “holy” book, you have just admitted that you’re willing to believe anything on no evidence at all. It’s just like the Christians say “God said it, I believe it, that settles it.” What a way to employ critical thinking.
But the larger argument here is the fact that Islam just doesn’t stand up to modern scrutiny, and to the skeptic mind, no twisting of the words will satisfy our quench for truth. If one must cast aside what tried-and-tested modern science says is true in order to be a true Muslim, this will ultimately be the downfall of Islam and all religion, because in the long run, science will always win over faith.
1. With the exception of the Christian priest, Buhayrah, (May Allah be pleased with him), who is actually recognized as a Muslim, by virtue of the fact that he had recognized the signs of Prophethood on the person of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) & excepted him as a Prophet, before his death, Muhammad (Peace be upon him) didn’t have any contact with any Christian priests or academics, until after he received revelation, the only exception being Waraqah, who is actually recognized as a Muslim, because he recognized the signs of Prophethood on the person of Muhammad (Peace be upon him). He first began receiving revelation in Makkah, where there were very few, almost no Jews or Christians. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) didn’t have concrete contact & dealings with Jews & Christians until he came to Madinah.(ar-Rahiq-ul-Makhtum/The Sealed-Nectar)
9. There are inconsistencies in the Qur’an-Just because you don’t know Arabic doesn’t mean that the Qur’an has flaws, it just means that you’re that ignorant about the Qur’an, in the context of the classic commentaries of the Qur’an & Arabic-Language.
13. You’re just tryin’ to dance around the fact that time is regulated/controlled/determined by Allah. So, since this is the case, time (like everything else is), Allah has the exclusive, divine right to determine, regulate, define time in any capacity & order that He wants.
14. All translations have benefits & setbacks, some more than others-No translation is flawless. As far as “Universal-Religion” goes, just because Arabic is the standard religious language of Islam, relative to the revelation of the Qur’an, doesn’t mean that Islam is just for Arabs. It’s just that the Arabic-Language signifies a linguistic bond, that Muslims around the world share, because it has been chosen as the language that Allah had revealed the Qur’an in.
17. Allah makes it very clear, in numerous places how Humans were created, and guess what? The evolution fable is not one of the ways that Allah tells us that Humans came into existence. Moreover, the fact that Evolutionists/Darwinists are still looking for the “missing-link”, between Primates & Humans proves that Evolution is still a myth in and of itself. I mean, there’s a very important reason why Evolution is still classified as a “scientific-theory”, as opposed to a “scientific-law”.
18. The fact that you still can’t definitively prove, with all of our accomplishments as a Human race, via science/technology, that Humans evolved from Primates (i.e. there’s no tangible standing archaeological proof that Humans evolved from Primates), proves that not only does science not lose over faith, but that Evolution/Darwinism in and of itself is a belief, a faith. You believe in something that is not 100% proven, you’re willing to use your soul as a bargaining-chip, in a gamble, based upon a theory, a belief that still hasn’t been definitively proven.
Wow this is great, I can go back and forth forever.
1. I am aware of the Islamic tradition of retroactively making non Muslims into Muslims (as is done with Jesus and Abraham etc) but that still does not dispute the fact that Mohammad knew Christians in his time, and Jewish and Christian myths were know to some of the people in 7th century Arabia. So your argument is flawed.
9. What’s more likely: that there is a “perfect” book authored by an all powerful god, and whose only flaws are a result of its translations over the years, or, that there is a man-made book whose flaws are apparent because all humans make mistakes? I’ll go with the latter, thank you.
13. This is very ontological and has little empirical value. To just assert that Allah is in “fact” the manipulator of time, without offering not a shred of evidence, allows you to attribute any characteristic to him. And if you expect me to believe that, then sorry.
If Allah created the universe at some point in the past, then there was a moment when Allah existed alone, before he created the universe. Then there was a moment when Allah exists together with the universe, after he created it. But “before” and “after” only exist when you exist in time. Therefore it is logically impossible for Allah, or anything, to do something in the absence of time. Time is just a measurement between two moments. If Allah created the universe, he had to do it at some time. To be timeless is to be frozen unto all possibilities, because the moment you create a universe, or even will to create a universe, time exists for you.
17. Here is one main problem I have with religion. “My Bible/Qur’an/Torah says this, so I believe it on FAITH.” The “missing link” has been found for numerous transitional species. Have you not read anything about evolution? First, evolution is the absolute standard in science today and it is never going anywhere. Do you honestly think that the entire scientific community is wrong on evolution, or that there is a conspiracy to trick people into thinking it’s true? Evolution is science and science always has critics trying to break it down and no one has destroyed evolution.
How do you explain Homo Erectus, homo heidelbergensis, Homo Habilis, and Homo Neaderthalis? Where do all these species fit into your creation story? These are all transitional species of our genus “homo” all of whom we share common ancestry with.
Intelligent design was put “on trial” so to speak, in Dover Penn, in 2005 and it lost from its lack of this thing called evidence and evolution won due to its overwhelming scientific evidence in the fossil record and in the DNA. I don’t have the space here to teach you evolution but here are some links:
Human Evolution:
Transitional Fossils:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_link#Missing_links
Intelligent Design on Trial:
Gravity is still a “theory”, Einstein’s relativity is still a “theory”. You obviously ARE as ignorant to science as you claim I am to Islam (which I am not). In scientific terms, when you have a hypothesis, you try to find evidence that contradicts it. If the hypothesis or theory, can withstand many attempts to try to disprove it, it stays a theory, because there is no certitude that one cannot come along and do disprove it (which shows you that science isn’t dogma unlike religion). A theory in scientific terms is something widely understood to be true, because nothing has disproved it. It doesn’t mean that it is a fable. Did you even graduate high school?
From Wikipedia: A scientific theory is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.”
18. Darwin is not the god of atheists, but he is a revered figure, to the same degree that Martin Luther King Jr. is in the African American community. Darwin is not worshiped, we don’t submit to him, and he doesn’t command us to “kill the pagans wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush” and “Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people”.
There is no eternal torment waiting for those who disbelieve evolution, our position’s strength relies in the power of our arguments and the evidence from the natural world. We don’t need fear.
Finally I would like to ask you how old you think the universe and Earth and mankind is since you think I and science is wrong. And I don’t want to hear some silly “I don’t know” response. Creationism has so many flaws in it that you must be aware of. For one thing how did we get all the races of people around the world given a common descendence from “Adam” and then with the flood, in a few thousand years if it weren’t for the evolutionary process?
Anyway, thank you for your answers and the time it took you to make them. It is greatly appreciated.
I’m gonna sum this up really simply: Allah is the Eternal, He is the Lord of the Universe; He created (infinite & finite) time, while not being regulated by time Himself, thus Him being eternal. He created the Universe, and He created everyone & everything which exists within it. Now, you’ve said that you doubt the legitimacy of the Qur’an, while it’s a known fact that the one whom it was revealed to was illiterate & never formally educated, yet had all of this knowledge (about the Universe, Nature, etc.), which no one on Earth had at this particular time. Even if a person were to say, “Okay, I believe in the whole ‘Evolution’ thing; but, it is Allah who caused it to happen.”, you would still disbelieve what this person is saying, because your disbelief in a divine creator has absolutely nothing to do with anything scientific. It only has to do with you wanting an excuse to live your life without any sort of divine regulation, you basically want to worship your own ego & desires, and Atheism/Anti-Theism, as well as Evolution/Darwinsim are your tools, which you use to pursue & entertain this pathology.
Fine, you’re a Muslim and I’m an Atheist. We will never change our ways. My disbelief in a divine creator has a lot to do with science, as well as logic and philosophy as I mentioned above. The fact that everything supernatural lies beyond what can be confirmed through observation and experiment, forces me to take the default position on such assertions which is disbelief. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And vague passages in “holy” books that are half correct and sometimes completely false just won’t do it. Otherwise, I could just believe in anything on faith: Mormonism/Myths/Vampires/Werewolves/Monsters etc. And that would be naive.
Millions of Christians/Jews/Muslims believe the ‘evolution” thing. All one has to sacrifice to do this, is to believe that some passages are allegorical and not to be taken literal, as fundamentalists often can’t do.
Given the fact that Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists will have to coexist for a LONG time, I’m not here necessarily to fight constantly. You have the right to practice your faith and publicly speak about it without fear of penalty, but so do people of all other faiths and those without faith do too. What I stand for is freedom of conscious and of mind and a free and open society is necessary for this. When it comes to governments, I want total separation of religion and state. Religion to me is a private matter, and government should not be endorsing it. Freedom of speech is paramount as well, and nothing should be off the table for debate and critique. You know, I’m offended by a lot of shit I see and hear everyday, but I don’t burning buildings down or condone others who do it the minute my feelings are hurt. And I’m not saying that you are that kind of Muslim, but the Islamic world must grow up and learn to take a little criticism like the rest of us.
If you can agree with this, we all will be able to live better.
Pause. The only clear way of defeating your argument is to point out the fact that Allah is a He. Why not an it?
It’s very obvious that you have no definitive knowledge of the Arabic-Language. So, I’ll give a simple, quick, lesson: In the Arabic-Language (in many other languages as well, but Arabic specifically), any noun (a word which describes anyone or anything which possesses existence, life, “person-place-or-thing”, an idea, a concept, etc.), which does not have a gender, their given the automatic, default status of being classified, linguistically, as masculine. The reason why Allah’s names & characteristics are masculine is, by definition, due to the fact that Allah, Himself, doesn’t have a gender. And, this is also why when it comes to Him being mentioned (either in the Qur’an or Prophetic-Tradition) with pronouns, any & all pronouns used to describe Him are masculine.
There’s also another example of this: There’s a word in the Arabic-Language, Malak, which is, ironically, a very popular name for girls in the Arab-World, is actually a masculine name. It’s a masculine name, because, the word, Malak means Angel & according to Islamic-texts, Angels are gender-less, they’re neither male nor female.
Also, the reason why the word He is used to describe Allah, in both the Qur’an & Prophetic-Tradition, is because the word it, according to the Arabic-Language, would only be used for things, which do not possess life. However, Allah does possess life, and in fact, He’s the Ever-Living, He lives in a state of Eternity, He has always lived & always live, He was never born & He will never die.
I have a request. Can you please comment on this woman’s article regarding this matter. I don’t have a way with words and people have warned me not to get into arguments with atheists. It will only make my iman weaker. This woman Sarah tried to argue and I could see that she has done a pretty bad job of explaining faith, purpose of life and religion.
Please pretty please!!
Here is the link
For your reference
Sarah on November 27, 2014 at 17:33
Sorry to hear that. Hope you’re doing good now.
Please!!! Atheism doesn’t suit anybody at all. Not a single person on this planet. You simply chose to follow your whims and desires. What exactly is our purpose in life? Think about it. The answer is very clear but you want to be stubborn about it. They say even a dog is faithful to its owner. I feel sorry that you have no one to please, ask forgiveness for and be upset with your creator when things don’t go your way apart from your family and friends who are going to forget you as soon as you breathe your last. There is nothing worse than denying the existence of your creator. You say that you need proof. Just how much more proof do you need?
Reply
the mad momma on November 27, 2014 at 17:39
ROFL! I love outraged, rude believers. They’re the best argument against religion.
I’d like to ignore you, but I think you need answers.
1. What do you mean atheism doesn’t suit anybody? Who are you to decide that? Do religious people not follow their whims and desires? Or have you never seen a believer go to jail? Google Catholic priest pedophile – that should help.
2. What exactly is our purpose in life? Every person has his or her own purpose. It’s a little arrogant to want to speak for the other billion or so and decide that they all have the same purpose.
3. I like how you compare believers to dogs and god to an owner. Speaks volumes.
4. Why this servile attitude of wanting to please or thank someone else when you have friends, family, colleagues, the doctors who spend a lifetime curing you, farmers who put food on your table, engineers who gave you the internet and phone/laptop you’re tapping away on right now, to thank? And no, I’m not upset with my ‘creator’ – my parents created me and fortunately I get along with them fine. *You* believe in a creator and hence feel anger or love. I don’t believe in one, hence feel nothing towards this mythical being.
5. Please don’t feel sorry for me. Save your sorrow for your own need for dependence on someone above you. I’m perfectly happy and comfortable being responsible for my own choices.
6. What more proof do I need? Heck – what proof have y
Sarah on November 27, 2014 at 19:21
I wasn’t comparing you to a dog. It was just a metaphor. If you took it the wrong way then I apologise. Every human being has the same purpose.
The truth is that every object of this universe bears witness to the fact that the owner of this universe is the one and only one. Is it not then fair and just that one must lead his life as per the commands of Almighty god, the provider of every necessity to one’s life?
Without faith this life is not worth lliving. You think it is, but it is definitely not. I have no words for a woman who refers to the creator as a mythical creature. Very sad.
It utterly amazes me that you can spend thousands of hours of work for your living but not a single moment to figure out your existence. You are not here by your will but when you have no intention to believe in your creator then nobody can reason with you.
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the mad momma on November 27, 2014 at 19:48
Oh I’m not in the least bit offended. I didn’t say you were comparing me. The metaphor was less than complimentary to believers when you talk of dogs and masters.
“The truth is that…” – Who decided that this is the truth?
“The Almighty god, the provider of every necessity to one’s life” – If that were true, how do you explain the starving in Somalia? How does this person decide that some kids on the streets deserve to die of hunger and cold?
It’s a pity *your* life has nothing else worth living in without religion. But please don’t presume to make that decision on my behalf. I have family, friends, health, life, work, nature – plenty of things that make life worth living.
Interestingly I have no words for a woman who believes in some mythical creature watching over her. The arrogance inherent in that presumption is astounding. What makes you believe that your life is more worthy than a starving kid on the streets. And where is this God when those kids are starving and being raped?
It is precisely because I have spent hours figuring out my existence that I realise the ridiculousness of it. Also the arrogance of calling it Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Hindu mythology, but believing that the God you believe in is not mythical! Can you imagine how they feel about it?
I am not here by my will… and neither are you. We’re just the result of evolution. If you want to impute some grand divine meaning to it, I will not disabuse you of that notion. Equally, you can spare yourself the trouble of trying to convert me back to the myths that I have finally broken free of.
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I believe dawah is my purpose and the only reason I have turned to you for help through my earlier comments because I believe both the women need to know about Islam. And yes guidance is from Allah only but i felt i need to convey the message. Can you please help?
Please comment on her post.
I will not contact you further.
Salam…my best suggestion would be to attach the article of mine that you’ve read & post it on her page, in your next comment of her WordPress blog.
I have attached earlier. She will read only the comments on the blog. She says she can find thousands of such articles on net .
That is why I asked you to comment directly on it. I will not bother you after this. Please.
Also the issue is just not atheism. More importantly a mockery of people who have a religion. If u have read the comments you can clearly see how the woman tells that the one who depends on our creator Allah are very pitiful. I want you to respond with regarding the article and also info relating to the comments. I have never been so astounded and also hurt after reading the post and people’s comments. So I turned to you for help. Please I request you can you do this one favour?
I understand if you do not want to get involved. Please don’t feel the pressure on my behalf. I just could not stand the rude jokes some if them have there like comparing religion to underwear. I guess there are a lot of such people in the world. Maybe I should just let go and pray for guidance. I thought you could word it well so I asked. But I guess people can fix the ignorant but not arrogant. I should simply stop reading her blog if I am so hurt and insulted.
No, it’s not that I don’t wanna get involved. Basically, what I was hoping you’d do is just refer them to my site.